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Why the Big 3 Bailout is Bullshit: Cadillacs Made in China

By nostalgiphile in MLP
Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 05:02:40 AM EST
Tags: bankruptcy, automobiles, Japan, made in China, Detroit, YFI (all tags)

First, they say that between 160,000 and 3 million manufacturing jobs are on the line, but then turn around and blame the unions (the organization that represents those workers). In fact, foreign (mainly Japanese) automakers employ almost as many Americans as the "Big 3" do (113,000). Helping GM, Ford, and Chrysler could actually hurt those American auto-workers at non-Big 3 factories. Moreover, even according to optimistic estimates, the crappy clunkers Detroit has been making for years will be far less feasible in the coming worldwide depression than the smaller, cheaper more sensible Japanese brand cars which are (by % of parts/labor) MORE AMERICAN than the "American" cars. (GM parts are often made in China, whereas cars like the Honda Accord are 70% American-made).


Second, why the fuck does this $25 billion need to be spent to help the Big 3 in the first place? What exactly will that money do to postpone the inevitable failure of these inefficient dinosaurs? Will they become more efficient, productive organizations? Doubtful, and this is why I like the point made by former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich:
"When a big company that gets into trouble is more valuable living than dead, there used to be a well-established legal process for reorganizing it - called chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code. Under it, creditors took some losses, shareholders even bigger ones, some managers' heads rolled. Companies cleaned up their books and got a fresh start. And taxpayers didn't pay a penny." (Audio for you illiterate asshats)

Both The Washington Post's George Will and The New York Times agree with Reich, the latter with the stipulation that the government should oversee a bankruptcy and make sure GM becomes more efficient--especially by getting rid of its more superfluous brands (e.g., Pontiac, Cadillac).

I strongly agree with this, but would further insist that--if we are really worried about American manufacturing jobs--any financial assistance to GM would require it to invest in producing cars like its new hybrid LaCrosse in the USA rather than in China. (In order to seal its deal with China, GM had to agree that a percentage of each LaCrosse would be "made in China" and plans to build a $250 million fuel research center in Shanghai). After all, how stupid would it be for US taxpayers to subsidize an auto industry that outsources to the People's Republic of China, the main threat to manufacturing jobs in the US? Wouldn't it be wiser to let these companies go under via chapter 11, and offer tax breaks to Honda, Toyota, and Nissan for each laid off Big 3 worker they hire?

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Poll
Save the Big 3?
o No, not if it means Pontiac finally dies. 40%
o Yes, they just need more time to make EVERY CAR in China. 16%
o Don't care, I'm a foreigner. 26%
o Don't care, it's written by nosta. 0%
o Don't care, not relevant to my interests. 10%
o WIPO 6%

Votes: 30
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o between 160,000
o 3 million manufacturing jobs
o as the "Big 3" do (113,000)
o crappy clunkers
o made in China
o Robert Reich
o Audio
o The Washington Post's George Will
o The New York Times
o rather than in China
o plans to build a
o Also by nostalgiphile


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Why the Big 3 Bailout is Bullshit: Cadillacs Made in China | 60 comments (58 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Wait what? (none / 1) (#1)
by boxed on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:00:36 AM EST

"the government should oversee a bankruptcy and make sure GM becomes more efficient"?! The government, by pretty much any standard is the least efficient beast around (by design largely) should lecture a private company on efficiency? Won't anyone think of the children?

screw the companies, save the capacity (1.50 / 2) (#3)
by krkrbt on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:36:38 AM EST

Buickman says that GM has been intentionally run into the ground by their bankers, whose goal is to defeat labor.

One prediction I meant to include in this year's prediction story was that one or two of the big three automakers would declare bankruptcy within two years. There was a lot of ground to cover, and I just forgot. This prediction mostly comes from reading The Truth About Cars' GM/Ford Deathwatch and Chrysler Suicide Watch series of editorials.

LaRouche has said that the automaker's capacity to produce needs to be salvaged to rebuild the physical economy. Right now GM/Ford/Chrysler have fairly well organized production processes. If GM/Chrysler get scattered to the wind in a bankruptcy auction (how many buyers would be from China?), it would take quite a while to rebuild the lost capacity for design and manufacturing.

Building an alternator is not so different than building a windmill. The Federal Government could buy GM complete at the bankruptcy auction, and have them build useful things instead of disposable automobiles. I'm still putting my thoughts together on this line of thought...

yes, no, maybe (3.00 / 3) (#5)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:30:19 PM EST

Powerline covered this topic, so not to be outdone, I also weigh in on my blog.

What it boils down to - Toyota shouldn't buy GM, GM should file for Chapter 11, the UAW has a large share of the blame (none of the jap car makers let the UAW in) and the other portion goes to GM and Ford for building cars whole instead of building legos that build a car.

That's why I disagree with the list in the "10 cars that sank detroit". The staple of Toyota is the Camry, who's frame and engine appears in every Toyota and Lexus four-door. All you're getting when you buy a Toyota four door is a Camry with different trim. The fact that Newman criticizes the Chevy Astro shows that he has very little understanding of what's happening under the hood. And that brings us to the last, utterly braindead paragraph:

Create multiple versions of every product under a bunch of different brand names, hoping that if buyers shun one, they'll take a more favorable view of another. Message to Detroit: Consumers aren't that stupid. Give them a bit more credit, and you might have a future.

This is exactly why Toyota does so well. The 3SGE (no T) was built in 1991, and Toyota still runs the engine (sometimes as a 3SGTE - the "MR2 engine") today. "Jeep" isn't the issue, it's the management of the brand. Jeep used to be a utility brand, but Chrysler drove them into the ground with quality problems and trying to make it into a luxury SUV.

i got called on bringing a cane to school, didn't get suspended or anything, but they made me take it home. no, i didn't have a limp or anything. i'm just that kind of faggot. - LilDebbie

Let them burn (3.00 / 8) (#6)
by xC0000005 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 01:05:59 PM EST

Large companies must be allowed to fail miserably if there is any hope of ever seeing different behavior.

Build business, run it into the ground, be rescued from bad decisions by government. That's not behavior that needs to be rewarded.

American automakers chased failure with all the tenacity and know how they could, building cars for a market that couldn't be sustained and failing to follow the leader when times changed. Do we really want to turn the automakers into a public works project?

Business is a form of evolution - the weak die, the strong get stronger. Without any proof that the big three have a gameplan to produce real vehicles at a reasonable price this isn't a revival, it's setting up a lost world where the dinosaurs can meander for a little while longer. And once they've suckled from the bailout teat once they'll come back for more each time they run dry.

Sadly, I think the best option is to allow them to actually fail.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't

Why did we bail out Chrysler in the 80's? (3.00 / 5) (#7)
by Harry B Otch on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 02:21:32 PM EST

So they could crap out more K-cars, Sebrings, and other atrocious garbage to pollute the American landscape--only to get bought out eventually by Germans?

I know someone who drives a 1987 Honda Accord--made back when they were still actually built in Japan (you know, "imports").  It's got 200,000+ miles on it, but it's still in fine condition, and the engine is one of the cleanest and smoothest I've ever seen on a car that age.  The American auto industry excels at one thing, and one thing only: building gigantic trucks and SUVs for fake-macho bourgeois shitheads.  They make their point of view abundantly clear that fuel-efficient cars are for losers.

So, "what's good for GM is what's good for America"?  That may turn out to be more prophetic than we realized--we've been held hostage by bloated, greedy, ugly fuckheads for decades, and we're starting to pay the price for it now.  Let's let 'em sink, at leave the auto manufacturing to countries that are really good at it, like Japan, and let America go back to doing what it does best.

-----
Bathrooms can be pretty easy... Believe me, I know. - rusty

There is a problem (none / 1) (#10)
by United Fools on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:12:28 PM EST

Taiwan employs more Chinese workers than American companies!

Why doesn't Taiwan hire American workers rather than Chinese workers?

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!

The $25 billion is already spent (3.00 / 3) (#13)
by curien on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 07:43:35 PM EST

It was appropriated to the auto industry to help them to make fuel efficient cars. Never mind that every other car company on the planet did it just fine on their own.

The current debate is whether to given them billions more in addition to the $25 billion they're already guaranteed.

--
Murder your babies. -- R Mutt

I was watching CNBC today and one of the (2.00 / 2) (#18)
by greengrass on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:06:09 PM EST

talking heads said, "Let them file for chapter 11 and then they could be rid of the unions forever."

I tried slapping my TV.

+1FP (none / 1) (#25)
by Stick Apart on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:49:56 PM EST

good show, ||º§7α
-------
JOIN THE RAY ECKSON CLUB
The reason the Dem Congress (none / 1) (#29)
by achievingfluidity on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 09:00:48 AM EST

wants to bail out the Big 3 is to pay back the unions for supporting Obama, as ludicrous as it sounds.

The unions want/needed Obama elected and contributed considerable $$$$$$$s to his election. It's now time to receive a return on their investment. Where the Big 3 not to receive this bailout the UAW would lose it's power in the U.S. in a Chapter 11 Reorg. The Union contracts would shrink to almost nothing and would make them irrelevant.

--


go ahead and rescue them (none / 1) (#31)
by circletimessquare on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:33:51 AM EST

and demand they make electric cars

or don't rescue them, and let the big 3 figure out on their fucking own what consumers really need:

electric cars

duh

fucking gm built an electric car in the 1990s, then had them all crushed. there's pictures of brand new electric cars lined up in a scrap yard waiting to be scrapped and crushed

that's some fine forward thinking management there, gm


I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC

Excellent effort (none / 1) (#32)
by sausalito on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:47:29 AM EST

valid points, your rabid anti-China position is very cunningly dissimulated.

Was not around to vote - posthumous +1FP.
_____________

CTS - "I speak on behalf of humanity and the vast majority of international governments"

sort of tangential, but chap 11 isn't liquidation (3.00 / 4) (#38)
by Delirium on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 04:32:16 PM EST

Another reason the bailout is bad is that we already have a procedure for reorganizing insolvent companies so they can get back into a sustainable business plan—chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code. It temporarily protects companies from their creditors, and authorizes a judge to allow the company to restructure its debt or partially default on it, renegotiate any contracts or obligations, and/or dilute or wipe out shareholders to raise new capital.

Bailing them out without going through chapter 11 would make the biggest difference to the company's owners and creditors—if they went into chap 11, likely bondholders and owners like Cerberus Capital Management would lose out even if the companies eventually go on to be successful, whereas if they get bailed out and go on to be successful, the profits accrue to Cerberus/etc. Are large private-equity firms really deserving of public subsidies in that matter? I'd say no—if they want to restructure, make them do it the proper way.

Well its pretty simple really. (none / 1) (#41)
by eavier on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 07:07:37 PM EST

You're not going to let your big three die because its more to do with pride than common sense.

Plus with them gone, your rust belt disolves into wasteland, all those talented folks no longer have jobs, nor do they have money to buy more shitTM.

They'll all be rescued. I just hope the car companies get broken up into more efficient business units as a condition of their bail-out.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

Looks like your troll worked (none / 0) (#48)
by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 07:52:41 AM EST

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gbjFY-o07QeryRxtFR3oC1w_v1PwD9 4IHSG01

Unions (3.00 / 3) (#52)
by the77x42 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 10:16:55 PM EST

It's not fair to the workers that it's come to this. Someone who has been working in a car factory for twenty years has now got fuck all in the job market. It's easy for the computer elite to say, "that's evolution" or "they should have more education", but the reality is that the majority of workers in North America are simply of average intelligence with a limited skill set. They reap the profits of the car companies to support their families. That's what unions do.

But it's not fair that the company has had its head up its ass all these years. If the American auto industry pumped out economical, electric or hybrid vehicles that looked sharp and had fewer design flaws, both the companies and the union workers would be swimming in green. The automakers dropped the ball.

We should not simply say "fuck it, too bad" and put hundreds of thousands of people out of work -- that's what would kill the economy -- but instead fire all the bigwigs, fire all the managers, and institute huge incentives for automakers to not only produce fuel efficient cars, but provide huge incentives for people to buy them. If there was a $8,000 hybrid out there and the government would credit me a few hundred a year in tax breaks to cover maintenance, fuckineh I would buy one. Maybe two.

The point is that there are other ways to keep union labour and still have enormous profits. The companies are out of touch, the workers shouldn't suffer.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

Article translated to spanish (none / 0) (#59)
by Buenaventura Durruti on Fri Dec 26, 2008 at 02:11:40 PM EST

Hello. I did found this article interesting, so I've translated it to Spanish for libreXpresion.org. You may find it here:

Por qué el rescate de la industria automovilística es una estupidez: Cadillacs hechos en China

Although libreXpresion.org's public is mainly spanish, I think that every thing done by EEUU goverment on depression will affect us in someway, so I think this topic its interesting for us also.

Why the Big 3 Bailout is Bullshit: Cadillacs Made in China | 60 comments (58 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
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