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The glass is half empty: Americans and Civil Rights for Muslims

By jolly st nick in MLP
Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 11:07:13 AM EST
Tags: News (all tags)
News

The Media and Society Research Group of Cornell University conducted a survey in November of Americans with respect to their attitudes towards Muslims. Nearly half (44%) of respondents favored restricting the civil rights of Muslims in some way.

The press release, with links to the report, is available at PRNewsWire.


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For example, over a quarter of the respondents felt that Muslim should have to register their whereabouts with the federal government.

Naturally, there were differences between Republicans and Democrats, religious and non-religious people. Nearly 40% of Republicans favored federal tracking for Muslims as opposed to only 24% of Democrats and a mere 17% of independents. Curiously, the opinions expressed by highly religious respondent was almost the same as that of Republicans respondents, except that relatively more Republicans thought that government officials lie (62% vs. 49%). Democratic answers tended to follow the same patterns as low religiosity voters, but not nearly as closely (they appear slightly less "liberal").

Another interesting distinction is people who pay attention to television news vs. those who do not. People who get their news from television are much more likely to be scared and to favor restrictions in Muslim civil rights than to people who don't.

Perhaps a less alarming way of looking at this is that 48% of Americans did not favor the curtailment of Muslim civil rights in any way. Strong majorities continue to believe in the right to criticize (66%) and even protest (60%) government actions. These rights were even supported by a slim majority of highly religious persons.

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The glass is half empty: Americans and Civil Rights for Muslims | 529 comments (506 topical, 23 editorial, 0 hidden)
-1, quotes prnewswire as a primary source. (1.33 / 3) (#2)
by gr3y on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 12:24:27 AM EST

You may as well quote wikipedia.

I am a disruptive technology.

Need Change of Terms (1.66 / 3) (#3)
by Peahippo on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 12:39:24 AM EST

We shouldn't call it TV ... television. It's much closer to the truth to call it TS ... telestupidity.


Meanwhile, in other news (2.64 / 14) (#5)
by mcc on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 01:21:24 AM EST

PNAC mouthpieces, more subtly conservative-sympathetic sources, and blogosphere footsoldiers alike have recently begun an interestingly consistently-messaged campaign of railing against the "deadly tolerance" practiced in European countries toward Islam.

Hmm.

Statistics are slippery; any attempt to interpret what the Cornell survey means must be accompanied by a certain amount of due doubt. But it seems pretty clear where the media properties of Rupert Murdoch throw their weight in on this one.

Is 66% really a strong majority? (2.75 / 8) (#7)
by Sarojin on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 05:30:28 AM EST

It's enough to assure victory in a vote, sure, but if you got 66% on a test, that wouldn't be a "strong pass". If I was an American, I would be worried that only 66% believe in the right to criticize the Government.

Islam is not the most dangerous religion in (2.25 / 12) (#11)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 09:04:33 AM EST

America, I fear that title goes to the heretical Fundamentalist Protestants who deny the Pope, and the True Church. But in the interests of Ecumenicalism, let's not mention those Hellbound heretics.

I'm against registering Mohammedans, except perhaps in the case of those who run Mediterraneum cuisined restaurants, because sometimes lamb kabobs and bitter olives really make my day, and it would be nice to know where the nearest restaurant is during my travels.

why the focus on america? (1.21 / 19) (#17)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 10:07:26 AM EST

typical braindead liberal navel gazing

the liberal cause used to be cosmopolitan and worldly

now i see more wordliness in conservative opinions, and it is the liberals in today's day and age who have become provincial

ask a thai their opinion of muslims (insurgents in the south)

ask a filipino (insurgents in the south for 500 years)

ask a russian (chechen rebels)

ask a german (hatred towards turks)

ask a frenchman (hatred towards algerians)

ask the chinese (anti-muslim sentiments in the west)

ask an indian, ask a brit, ask a spaniard, ask a nigerian from the south, ask an indonesian from maluku/ sulawesi/ flores, etc., etc.

it's not an american problem, it's a world problem, and it's all about muslim intolerance first and foremost

international muslim militancy is on the rise, and when muslims invited into your country drive airplanes into office towers, bomb subways, bomb discos, stab artists, etc., you can be sure that the local populace is going to wonder about muslims

do you want to change things for the better? expect of the muslim world and the muslim communities in nonmuslim societies to respect nonmuslims

because to talk about intolerance of muslims, while completely falling silent on the regular drumbeat from the muslim world: "kill all the infidels" is pure blindness, through and through

in truth, i applaud americans for still being as tolerant of muslims as they are, despite such anti-american carnage by the muslim world

brain dead liberals, get it right: the biggest issue of intolerance in today's world is muslim intolerance of other cultures to the point of condemning them all to death

you show me any intolerance towards muslims, and i'll show you orders of magnitude more intolerance of nonmuslims by muslims

to navel gaze, that is, to only be able to criticize the culture you are from and its minor crimes, while falling absolutely silent on horrible atrocities committed by other cultures, is not the definition of a progressive human conscience that considers all human beings equal

a truly global pov, a truly liberal, progressive way of viewing the world, one that considers all human beings equal, and desires peace and prosperity for all, would be making itself most busy condemning the muslim world for its disgusting intolerance of nonmuslims

only the provincial inward useless punitive liberal-in-classification-but-not-in-spirit fucks would be condemning the usa for intolerance, and falling deaf, blind, and silent on truly vile evil coming from the muslim world towards nonmuslims

you don't help the situation, and you don't have a real human conscience

you in fact are hard at work continuing suffering and war in this world by refusing to criticize that which, most obviously, deserves the most criticism: hypocritical, basketcase muslim bigotry and intolerance which is very much alive and strident in this world, and causing the most damage in this world

tha treally is the truth, wake the fuck up

do you want ot advance the liberal agenda? well then, fight its biggest enemy on today's world you boneheads!: militant muslim fundamentalism!


I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC

As we all know... (1.70 / 10) (#18)
by Empedocles on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 10:14:10 AM EST

Muslims are egalitarian, equalitarian, not anti-Semitic, hate genocide, support equality before the law, and are very progressive.

Personally, I am following the advice written here.   After I get my ding-a-ling fixed and we get married, she will soon have a fine job.  If she commits adultery the advice here should be most helpful.

May I also suggest that you cock-smoking teabaggers follow the advice here and here?

---
And I think it's gonna be a long long time
'Till touch down brings me 'round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home

I don't know how you managed to find (2.62 / 8) (#24)
by jubal3 on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 11:48:31 AM EST

the CAIR mouthpiece story, but HERE and HERE are the links to the actual polls WITHOUT the slant. The story isn't that Americans hate muslims. On the contrary,the data regarding feelings towards Muslims show that Americans are astonishingly tolerant of a religious group that can't manage to condemn their co-religionists who like to blow up school buses without equivicating. You'll find a lot more than 27% of Dutch people who want Muslims to register with the government. HEll, for that matter what about the 46% of Republicans and almost a qurter of Democrats who think it should be illegal FOR ANYONE to CRITICIZE the government. That's a far more disturbing statistic. There's a shitpot of data in those polls you never even mentioned that explains the real story. Americans are SCARED TO DEATH. Whether that's rational or not, it's a fact. The whining by CAIR isn't the story here. You missed it.


***Never attribute to malice that which can be easily attributed to incompetence. -HB Owen***
How does it feel to be propagandized? (2.60 / 5) (#39)
by Kasreyn on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 02:27:04 PM EST

"liberal" does not mean "unreligious". They happen to coincide a lot in the same people over and over again, but aren't actually the same thing.

It's a shame that this shit keeps happening, but progress is slow. Anyone who thinks this is something unique is advised to study Japanese-American internment during WWII.

Gee, I for one just can't WAIT for my taxes to cover a reparations payment to American Muslims 40 years from now, right when every tax dollar will be needed to keep my ass in Depends, just because people couldn't control their fear reactions.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
focus on europe is more appropriate on this issue (1.33 / 9) (#44)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 02:55:03 PM EST

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/international/15letter.html

Letter From Europe: A Continent Watching Anxiously Over the Melting Pot

December 15, 2004
By RICHARD BERNSTEIN

BERLIN, Dec. 14 - Imagine a former American president
publicly grumbling that it was a mistake for a certain
group to have been allowed to immigrate to the United
States - the Irish, say, or Jews, or Pakistanis. The
outrage would be justifiably loud.

But a former German chancellor, Helmut Schmidt, now 85,
recently declared that Germany should never have invited in
all those Turkish guest workers in the 1950's and 60's,
because, he suggested, multiculturalism can work only in an
authoritarian society.

The comment was not widely regarded as brilliant or wise,
but it caused no uproar; indeed, it was consistent with
many statements coming from German leaders lately on the
subject of ethnic and cultural minorities.

"Multiculturalism has failed, big time," Angela Merkel, the
almost certain conservative candidate for chancellor in the
next national elections, said recently. Many political
figures and commentators have been saying that immigrants
should accept what the Germans call the leitkultur, the
dominant culture, as their own, or they should leave.

"We cannot allow foreigners to destroy this common basis,"
warned Jörg Schönbohm, the interior minister of the state
of Brandenburg.

And so the question: why are Germans - and not just Germans
but other Europeans as well - in such a state of anxiety
and uncertainty about matters that have been more or less
settled in the world's biggest country of immigration, the
United States, for years? Why this discomfort with
multiculturalism, this belief that assimilation, accepting
the leitkultur, is the only way?

One reason clearly has to do with a dread of terrorism and
Muslim fundamentalism. A great deal of the current heated
discussion was prompted by the killing of the Dutch
filmmaker Theo van Gogh, allegedly by a Muslim militant.
The killing has had a galvanizing effect in this country,
where the feeling was strong that the conditions were in
place for something like it to happen here.

But, of course, the Americans suffered a vastly greater
attack than the Dutch did, and that has not led to strong
anti-diversity sentiment. In the immediate aftermath of
9/11, there were deep new suspicions, and widespread
roundups of Muslims suspected of connections to terrorism.
About the only area where the United States approaches the
European debate on assimilation is in bilingual education,
an issue that waxes and wanes. But there is no
anti-immigrant political party in America, not even the
constituency for one.

The difference, many here say, is that the United States
was basically created by immigrants, and Europe was not.
Therefore, especially after the civil rights movement,
diversity in the United States has come to be seen as a
value in itself, while Europe sees it as threatening.

But this explanation, too, only goes so far. European
countries have experienced large migrations for much of
their history - the Poles in Germany, for example. What
many people are saying, and certainly what many more people
believe, is that the problem for Europe is less the
traditions of the majority population than the nature of
the immigrants themselves.

Specifically, in Europe the immigration is largely Muslim,
and that has brought into the heart of the Continent a
large population that resists integration and includes a
proportion of people who are like the suspect in the Van
Gogh killing: angry religious militants carrying on a war
to the death with the West.

"The cultural problem is the crucial one," said Heinrich
August Winkler, one of Germany's best-known historians,
"because the political culture of many Muslims is very
different from the political culture of Europe."

Europeans often emphasize the backwardness of the
immigrants. "Our immigration was mostly from the Rif
Mountains of Morocco, which is a poor, illiterate area with
no jobs and no future," said Leon de Winter, a Dutch writer
and a columnist for the German newspaper Die Welt. They
came, moreover, in the late 1950's and 60's, Mr. de Winter
said, just at the time when the Dutch were undergoing the
60's revolution, elebrating sexual liberation,
experimenting with drugs, flaunting a colorfully
libertarian lifestyle that was especially alien to the
newcomers.

In Germany, the largest immigration is Turkish, tens of
thousands of people having been lured to Germany by
labor-short businesses in the 1950's and 60's. They came
from eastern Anatolia, which is conservative and
religiously observant by the standards of the majority
culture in Turkey, not just in Germany.

The German press often brings this point home with reports
of such events as honor killings among the Turks or the
forcing of girls into marriage against their will. Because
these things do happen, they give credibility to the view
that the Turks in general constitute what is being called a
"parallel society." And so the political discourse
generally rejects multiculturalism and diversity,
emphasizing instead the duty to adopt the leitkultur, to
learn German, to accept Germany's Judeo-Christian heritage
as well as its Constitution, with its guarantees of
equality for women.

And yet, most Turks, certainly of the second and third
generations, do speak German, and nobody seems to be
demanding that Shariah, Islamic law, be instituted in
Germany.

To some spokesmen for Germany's 2.2 million Turks, the
political discourse misses the point. True, they say,
Europe's immigration was poor and traditional, especially
compared with that of the United States, but Germany wanted
it that way. To insist on assimilation and to repudiate
diversity is to fail to accept responsibility for that.
Moreover, they say, people cannot be forced to assimilate.

"I was on a television discussion program," remembers
Mustafa Yoldas, a physician from Hamburg, the son of a
guest worker, and now the vice chairman of the Islamic
Association of North Germany. "After it, there was a poll
about whether Muslims were a threat to Germany or an
enrichment. Two-thirds said a threat, one-third said an
enrichment."

The view that Muslims are a threat seems to lie behind one
of the most discussed of the recent statements made after
the van Gogh killing, by Annette Schavan, minister for
culture in the state of Baden-Württemberg, who called for a
law requiring all sermons in mosques to be in German.

"In America," Mr. Yoldas said, referring not just to
proposals like that but to what he feels is the broad
attitude underlying it, "immigrants are proud to be
immigrants, but in Germany we are being endured."


I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC

HITLER WAS ELECTED (2.80 / 10) (#87)
by sllort on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 08:53:43 PM EST

History's #1 most important lesson.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
IN ALL HONESTY (1.05 / 19) (#88)
by killlllller on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 09:20:41 PM EST

WHERE ARE YOUR PRIORITIES?  TWO DOZEN SOLDIERS DIED TODAY AND YOU'RE BITCHING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL ABOUT "CIVIL RIGHTS".

I HAVE THE "CIVIL RIGHT" TO KICK YOUR ASS.

Damn, (1.50 / 2) (#89)
by buck on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 09:23:51 PM EST

where's The Honorable Elijah Muhammad when you need him. This article is just begging for his 0.02 worth.
-----
“You, on the other hand, just spew forth your mental phlegmwads all over the place and don't have the goddamned courtesy to throw us a tissue afterwards.” -- kitten
What do you mean by Muslim? (2.42 / 7) (#91)
by Vilim on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 10:33:38 PM EST

When you say muslims, do you mean those who practise Islam or people from the middle east

If the former, then if I converted to Islam (and lived in the states) I would automatically have my civil rights curtailed?

Or suppose my friend Jhan-Zieb (I honestly can't remember how to spell his first name. Everyone just calls him Jonny) lived in the states, he still has a considerable accent despite coming from Pakistan when he was young. He is not of any religion. Would he have his rights curtailed?

I thought we learned from World War two that locking an entire group in prison was a bad idea. It should be noted that a vanishingly small amount of Muslims are actually nutjobs who fly planes into buildings. If all Muslims have thier rights stomped on because of a small amount of nutjobs. A similar case can be made with, for example Eric Rudolph and all Christians.



for the life of me i cannot understand this pov (1.41 / 12) (#108)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 12:52:54 AM EST

how can someone profess to care about civil rights, and find time to criticize the usa for a lack of that, while completely falling silent on societies in this world where civil liberties are raped so thoroughly?

will someone please explain to me how someone can be so intellectually dishonest as to criticize the usa with a straight face and fall so silent on areas of the world where civil rights get little attention?

if you criticize the usa, and fall silent on areas of the world where civil liberties get scant respect, exactly what are you trying to prove? what are your goals?

for the life of me i cannot understand such blindness, and i cannot respect someone who professes passion for the subject of civil rights, yet falls so silent on places and regimes in the world where their stated focus is abused most thoroughly

it's really flabbbergasting to me, this willful blindness of some

some of you out there leave me utterly dumbfounded at the complete willful disregard you have for those who live outside the borders of the united states

it's absolutely stupefying to me, alternately hilarious and odious


I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC

Already being done (2.66 / 3) (#167)
by ivancruz on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 12:59:39 PM EST

Acording to Katarina Kratovac of Associated Press picked by WashingtonPost.com, this is to be implemented very soon... at last in Fallujah. As usual, news like that have almost no echo in mainstream media. I found just two references to that report.

______________________________________
Eu vou, eu vou vender a minha vã, Eu vou vender a minha vã, A minha vã filosofia.(Zeca Baleiro)
Hearts and Minds (2.00 / 4) (#173)
by cga on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 01:22:12 PM EST

The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists.  Few would argue with that point.  However terrorists do receive support from other Muslims.  Be it monetary support or something as simple as keeping quiet.

Why do they do this?  They might not agree with the means of the terrorist but they do agree with the cause to some extent.

What we should learn from other countries experience with terrorists is that the way to fight terrorism is two pronged.  We must simultaneously hunt down terrorists and, just as importantly, make them unwelcome in their homes.  This means showing normal Muslims that we are the good guys.

Anti-Muslim hysteria only helps terrorists.  It gives them quarter.

Alarming (2.85 / 14) (#207)
by yem on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 02:56:26 PM EST

Strong majorities continue to believe in the right to criticize (66%) and even protest (60%) government actions.

So fully one third of respondents don't support right to even criticize government actions? Holy crap.



And this proves what? (1.25 / 8) (#222)
by cdguru on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 03:43:36 PM EST

When you get fed a steady diet of beheadings, IED's, kidnappings and such with a few comments from Hamas thrown in for good measure, it starts to have an effect.

If a group that is identified only a "Muslim leader" or "Muslim insurgents" keeps saying they way to kill you, after a while (years, in this case) people start to believe that anyone calling themselves "Muslim" might have a grudge against them. Its only natural that people would like to feel that something was being done to keep this in check.

Now, the airlines and TSA have firmly stuck to the concept of not singling out any group for increased security. We have also declared the borders to be pretty much open and let anyone in that comes along - except some nice white folks that have odd views on the world. So, the government has pretty much abdicated any role in protecting the citizens from people that have declared we'd should do them a big favor and just die. What do you expect?

I know there are plenty of people that agree - we should just die and leave the world to an resurrected Islamic caliphate. After all, that would be the final solution to the US imperialism. Push the Israelis into the Med and let the Palestinians return to their homeland. Let the folks in France wear headscarves if they want. Let the Muslims in Germany replace German law with Sharia so the Muslims are not unfairly judged by infidels.

CAIR != all Muslims in the USA (1.37 / 8) (#227)
by Lode Runner on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 04:08:07 PM EST

Depriving all Muslims in the USA of their guaranteed freedoms is unmitigatedly reprehensible. However, monitoring the terror apologists and religious supremacists who run CAIR is probably in order. My feeling is that CAIR wants to claim that justified suspicion of their agenda is suspicion of Islam in general.

IMHO, a much more interesting study: what percentage of Americans would like to see the civil liberties of atheists curtailed?

People have such weak memories. (2.71 / 7) (#250)
by Lethyos on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 06:04:48 PM EST

I seem to remember learning about a time when “civil rights” (voting, where one could live, property, not being fed to lions, put into gas chambers, et cetera) were restricted for people because they were Christian, Jewish, or some other despised group. I wonder how many of that 44% kept these facts in mind when they interally wrote off the rights of others because of their religion.



earth, my body; water, my blood; air, my breath; fire, my spirit
A few thoughts (3.00 / 11) (#275)
by jd on Thu Dec 23, 2004 at 01:34:41 AM EST

First, did anyone really believe Americans believed in civil liberties other than for them, personally, not necessarily even for other Americans?

At least one American has been held without trial and with the Government hell-bent on finding reasons why he shouldn't be. As the names and nationalities (or even the number) of those held shortly after 9/11 were never released, it is not impossible other Americans have been detained unlawfully, already.

Protests? Slim to none. It seems that liberties are optional, when it comes to people you don't think you like. (Remember, nothing's been proven, so any claims are necessarily just heresay at this point.)

Foreigners who visit the US are not (usually) protected or covered by the Constitution, even though the Constitution talks about what the Government may do, NOT what people may do. If the Government is banned from doing XYZ, then who it is trying to do XYZ to should be irrelevent, right?

The rules of US society have always been subject to change without notice. (To be perfectly fair, that is true in most countries. In fact, I can't name any countries in which equality really does mean "equal", not "less than, except when we can't get away with it".)

I like America, but it really does need to stop pretending that it is honorable, decent and respectable. It's tolerably decadant and about average on corruption. It's certainly no better than that. No worse, but no better.

Some day, in the next few thousand or so years, I hope people will get together and look at the various societies in history to see what ideas work and what ideas don't. All societies have something that is functional - sometimes only just - or they'd fall over under their own weight. Civilization isn't a trivial thing to maintain. However, all societies have many parts that are utterly dysfunctional and rotten to the core. Sooner or later, somebody's going to strike on the idea that you don't NEED to have a dysfunctional Government, provided you're willing to learn from someone else's experience.

Easy Identification (2.91 / 12) (#344)
by philstaite on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 07:35:09 AM EST

Perhaps they could all be asked to wear a Crescent shaped badge at all time to allow easy identification?

Heh. (2.00 / 2) (#368)
by valeko on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 09:56:41 PM EST

Well, if in any way accurate, it just states a tired tautology: Moral Majority Middle Americans are really, really, incredibly stupid.

"Hey, what's sanity got going for it anyways?" -- infinitera, on matters of the heart

I have an idea (1.00 / 11) (#403)
by rkz11 on Sun Dec 26, 2004 at 11:52:13 PM EST

Kill all Americans
-- GNAA Member
What were the questions? (none / 0) (#511)
by greggman on Sat Jan 01, 2005 at 09:47:17 PM EST

There is usually more than one side to every topic.

My father, Hawaiian American, was pretty upset that he got searched at the airport and his 30 yr old pocketknife confiscated.  He was pissed that they were searching more than middle easterners.

When I pointed out that they couldn't search just middle easteners because it would look racist he shot back that there were ZERO non-middle eastern participants in 9/11.

That's a pretty valid and LOGICAL argument.  If there is no evidence that any non-middle easteners are invovled then why inconvience everyone?  It would be better for more people and more efficient to limit the search to those that fit the profile.

Instead we are wasting the time of everyone AND hindering the chances of actually finding people that need being found.

Americans and Freedom (none / 0) (#524)
by FatHed on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:54:40 PM EST

We as Americans, like to do one thing above all others. Use the government/laws to oppress the rights of others. Every law removes a piece of somebody's freedom. This is not the American way, although the current population of the US seems to act like it is. America is suppose to protect the weak, the oppressed, and our own rights.

Intelligence is a matter of opinion.
polins (none / 0) (#529)
by polins on Fri Mar 18, 2005 at 12:41:13 AM EST

only the provincial inward useless punitive liberal-in-classification-but-not-in-spirit fucks would be condemning the usa for intolerance,and falling deaf, blind, and silent on truly vile evil coming from the muslim world towards nonmuslims.

The glass is half empty: Americans and Civil Rights for Muslims | 529 comments (506 topical, 23 editorial, 0 hidden)
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